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Bangel fandom v. Spuffy fandom
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dcai0830
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:44 am    Post subject: Bangel fandom v. Spuffy fandom Reply with quote

I figured this might be a good place to pose this question, I have noticed that when I checked in on the buffyverse fandom about 10 years ago there were a greater number of vocal Bangel fans out there. I came back months ago and most of what I see around the boards/fan fiction communities etc. is overwhelming numbers of Spuffy fans.

I thought I would throw the question out there for those who have been around this forum and how you have seen the fandom change and whether you might be able to give your opinion on why the Spuffy fandom seems so strong where as it appears the Bangel fandom has lost some steam?

Or maybe you disagree with my assessment and if so please tell me why I'm wrong.
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Grace Newman
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have obviously not been around long enough to actually answer this question. I don't know why there aren't more people like me, who came to the fandom recently and are very B/A-focused. But it doesn't seem like there are many, whereas there seem to be new Spuffies all over the place. I'm sure the comics help keep the online fandom stoked, but the readership is so small... I don't know.
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taaroko
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've actually found a surprising amount of Buffy/Angel activity on Tumblr. No idea if it's comparable to the Spuffy activity there, but it was very heartening to see.
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bonnaleah
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From my perspective the lack of vocal B/A fans has a lot to do with avoiding extremely unpleasant encounters with Spuffies. Maybe things are different now, but 10 yrs ago if you spoke up for B/A on general boards you were pretty much signing up to be harassed and ridiculed. It didn't make for a pleasant experience, and I think that was the point. If the DarkHorse boards were still up you could see for yourself that I'm not exaggerating. Heck the harassment even extended to Scott Allie...and some of that is probably still available at the old Slayalive board. Anyway, that's how I see it. So I don't think the B/A fan is outnumbered by the Spuffy fan....Spuffies are just more rowdy and vocal.

Quote:
I've actually found a surprising amount of Buffy/Angel activity on Tumblr. No idea if it's comparable to the Spuffy activity there, but it was very heartening to see.



Yeah I don't know a thing about Tumblr or how it works or anything really but if you google "Buffy and Angel tumblr" you will get 1,300,000 results.....and if you google
"spuffy tumblr" you will get 147,000 results....I too loved seeing all the B/A fans.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know many B/A fans who were very turned off about how the canon comics have gone and left fandom too.
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dcai0830
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

comic fan wrote:
I know many B/A fans who were very turned off about how the canon comics have gone and left fandom too.


Yea I'm not surprised. I was turned off when I tried reading Season 10 so much so that I just put the comics away and walked away for a bit. I didn't want to see the shows or anything. That in conjunction with the "more evolved" comment by Joss was a huge turn off for me. But then you gotta think if everyone jumps ship then the Spuffies win. I can't have the spuffies win Wink
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dcai0830 wrote:
comic fan wrote:
I know many B/A fans who were very turned off about how the canon comics have gone and left fandom too.


Yea I'm not surprised. I was turned off when I tried reading Season 10 so much so that I just put the comics away and walked away for a bit. I didn't want to see the shows or anything. That in conjunction with the "more evolved" comment by Joss was a huge turn off for me. But then you gotta think if everyone jumps ship then the Spuffies win. I can't have the spuffies win Wink


Well,I'm still reading the comics even though I hate the spuffy aspect.There is stuff still that I find I can enjoy.I haven't posted my thought on the individual issues for most of the season because this spring I got really sick and just wasn't up to it.By the time I recovered,it seemed easier to just wait for the season to finish and post my overall thoughts.

I will say that I thought this season of Angel has been pretty bad.

I posted a big rant on it about two weeks ago on Buffy forums.

http://www.buffyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?20587-Angel-S11-9-Issue-Discussion-Thread-(Full-Spoilers)
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dcai0830
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="comic fan"][quote="dcai0830"]
comic fan wrote:


Well,I'm still reading the comics even though I hate the spuffy aspect.


I jump around a bit and read things here and there but maybe one day I'll read all the way through.

What I don't understand and maybe you can tell me, is who are these writers? Do they know anything about the buffyverse? I know Jane Espenson did write some of the comics right? That makes me happy but for example in your review you talk about the writer of S11 of Angel, Corinna Bechko. Who is that, does she know anything about Angel the Series? It sounds like they go and find these writers and give them a crash course in Buffyverse-dom and off they go. And I feel the OOC arcs a great deal: See e.g. Twilight. I don't know much about the writer of Twilight and I really did enjoy other parts of Season 8 actually, but I firmly believe the guy who wrote the Twilight arc had never seen AtS. It just seemed so off to me. I would have appreciated writers who were Buffy fans or were Buffy writers to write these comics.

I didn't only stop reading Season 10 because of Spuffy, I also felt so disconnected from Buffy it was kinda sad. I skipped over and read old Demons and I hated the Angel cross over. I thought that the Buffy I know would never have shoved the relationship she had with Spike in Angel's face the way she did in the comics (well unless she was mad like in Sanctuary). She would have understood that even if they aren't in a relationship they have a past and the Buffy I know would have told Angel privately so as not to hurt his feelings. She wouldn't have just grabbed Spike, held his hand and smiled at Angel "Yea....it has been a while..." or whatever the line is I can't remember.

Irk.

But I'll probably buy the full Season 11 and read it at some point.
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dcai0830
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Comic Fan - I have more questions for you Smile

You said in the other forum "The whole story was done from the beginning as a time killer just so they could have a Angel book and one that kept time away from the events going on in Buffy.Which IMO is the wrong reason to do a story."

Can I ask and maybe other members who are also into the comics why you think they are trying so desperately to keep Angel away from Buffy Season 11? I mean why go through all of the trouble of buying the rights from IDW only to have only ONE cross over since the buy out? Is Angel even mentioned in the BTVS comic?

Do you think they will ever bring the two titles together?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What I don't understand and maybe you can tell me, is who are these writers? Do they know anything about the buffyverse? I know Jane Espenson did write some of the comics right? That makes me happy but for example in your review you talk about the writer of S11 of Angel, Corinna Bechko. Who is that, does she know anything about Angel the Series? It sounds like they go and find these writers and give them a crash course in Buffyverse-dom and off they go. And I feel the OOC arcs a great deal: See e.g. Twilight. I don't know much about the writer of Twilight and I really did enjoy other parts of Season 8 actually, but I firmly believe the guy who wrote the Twilight arc had never seen AtS. It just seemed so off to me. I would have appreciated writers who were Buffy fans or were Buffy writers to write these comics.


Corinna Bechko.is a well known comic writer but new to the Buffyverse with no prior knowledge of the shows prior to getting the Angel season 11 gig.

Joss broke the overall season at the writers summit but Corinna Bechko.had no direct contact with him.It sounds like Corinna Bechko.was hired and given the overall guidelines for the season set at the writers summit(the time travel aspect).

Brad Meltzer wrote the Twilight arc in season 8 but worked very close with Joss on it.

Joss was very hands on in season 8.He wrote over half the season himself directly.And many of the show's writers wrote for season 8.

But like Joss,they are very busy now with their TV and movie gigs.Drew Goddard and Steve DeKnight in particular along with Joss on the movie side of things.

Joss is co-writing the upcoming season 11 Giles miniseries.It was finaly announced at NYCC.It's four issues and launches in Feb.

Quote:
Can I ask and maybe other members who are also into the comics why you think they are trying so desperately to keep Angel away from Buffy Season 11? I mean why go through all of the trouble of buying the rights from IDW only to have only ONE cross over since the buy out? Is Angel even mentioned in the BTVS comic?


This is only my opinion but Buffy and Angel are the leads of the franchise.As such,if they want to keep the franchise going,their thinking is that the leads have to be kept apart to keep the machine running as it were.There was a Buffy show and a Angel show and the want to continue that.A Buffy main series and a Angel centric main series.If Buffy and Angel are brought back together,the franchise in its current form is over

Former Buffy editor Scott Allie even told me once that Buffy and Angel can't reunite and be brought back together until they are ready to end things.

Christos Gage has even said the same sort of thing to some on twitter I believe.Buffy and Angel can't/won't reunite until they are ready to end Buffy's story.

They basically want to milk things as long as possible .Atleast I think that was the intention for keeping Buffy and Angel apart.The problem now is most of the vocal fandom is spuffy shippers and the fear is TPTB might think that's all that left and just end things with B/S because they aren't hearing for calls for B/A.

Quote:
Do you think they will ever bring the two titles together?


At this point I honestly don't know.At one time I did.And at one time I bellieve that was the plan but now,I have no idea.

But I think it's stupid to put out a bad product(in this case a Angel series) just to keep things separated.It's one thing if there was a good story to tell and I believe there was with Angel seasons 1-5,Angel:After The Fall and with Angel & Faith in season 9.Even Angel & Faith season 10 while being a much weaker story still had a point IMO and tied into the larger season 10 themes.But Angel Season 11 has been pretty bad and pointless.

Basically...

1)We need to have a Angel centric monthly

2)We need to keep Buffy and Angel apart and artificially prevent a crossover.

4)But we want to use Faith in Buffy this season.

3)Something that will kill a year's time.

Answer,throw Angel into a time travel story with no real stakes.

I went into how they should of done things IMO if they really wanted to keep Angel out of the Buffy story this season in my Buffy Forums post.
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taaroko
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Former Buffy editor Scott Allie even told me once that Buffy and Angel can't reunite and be brought back together until they are ready to end things.

Christos Gage has even said the same sort of thing to some on twitter I believe.Buffy and Angel can't/won't reunite until they are ready to end Buffy's story.

They basically want to milk things as long as possible .Atleast I think that was the intention for keeping Buffy and Angel apart.The problem now is most of the vocal fandom is spuffy shippers and the fear is TPTB might think that's all that left and just end things with B/S because they aren't hearing for calls for B/A.


I've suspected this was the case for years. Didn't know anyone ever actually admitted it. *scowl* I wrote a big post on BB a couple weeks ago that addresses that preposterous way of thinking, so I'll just link it here.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

taaroko wrote:

I've suspected this was the case for years. Didn't know anyone ever actually admitted it. *scowl* I wrote a big post on BB a couple weeks ago that addresses that preposterous way of thinking, so I'll just link it here.


Scott mentioned it to me in a email a few years ago(might of been at some point during season 9.I'm pretty sure it was definitely before season 10 started though).

Christos Gage's twitter mention of this was in the last year or two I believe.

That's why I thought it was interesting back around season 10 started that Scott mentioned in a Slayalive Q/A that he and Joss had begun talking about giving Buffy a definitive ending.That it still would ways down the line at that point but that he broached the subject with Joss of giving Buffy an ending.That there should be a endpoint eventually.
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dcai0830
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What happened to the old Bangel fandom? Does anyone know where the old fic writers have gone? Did people just grow up or lose interest? It makes me wonder when I read all of the old fics, or great metas, and I wonder where did they go?
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Kairos
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dcai0830 wrote:
What happened to the old Bangel fandom? Does anyone know where the old fic writers have gone? Did people just grow up or lose interest? It makes me wonder when I read all of the old fics, or great metas, and I wonder where did they go?


Speaking for myself only: I don't know that I ever "grew up", or intend to, but sadly I did lose interest in this fandom. I hadn't really expected to, because I was already an adult when I found it, and although I had been completely consumed by other media at various times in my life, this was the first one that made me want to write/read fanfiction and join online discussions. I figured that was because of some special quality of Buffy, and I'm still not sure that's not the case, but now it feels like that same quality manifests in other fandoms and I can't find it in Buffy anymore.

I think the same thing has probably happened to a lot of the other B/A fans whose names you used to see all over the place, or variations on it (no time, frustrated with comics, frustrated with aggressive fans, etc.). I can think of two cases where the disappearance was apparently due to something more tragic. And actually a lot of the big names were already gone by the time I was active in the fandom, so I never really knew them.

Gotta admit though, nothing sucks me in like rereading some of our old meta posts here. Usually I can't even remember them, so I'm all like, "Wow, I totally agree with me on all of this! I'm awesome!"
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dcai0830 said:
Quote:
What happened to the old Bangel fandom? Does anyone know where the old fic writers have gone? Did people just grow up or lose interest? It makes me wonder when I read all of the old fics, or great metas, and I wonder where did they go?


Kairos said:
Quote:
I think the same thing has probably happened to a lot of the other B/A fans whose names you used to see all over the place, or variations on it (no time, frustrated with comics, frustrated with aggressive fans, etc.)


I suspect in most cases it was a combination of real life needing more of their attention, and shiny new fandoms inspiring them to write something else. I know I've said this before, but although the comics inspired some of the fans, for many others (myself included) it had completely the opposite effect.
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