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Buffy Season 3: 20th Anniversary Rewatch Thread
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Grace Newman
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hahaha, it took me so long to compose my post that I didn't know you posted before me, D!

dcai0830 wrote:
I think Angel means that he doesn't want her life to be with him. He wants more for her. He isn't lying to her.


I agree and I disagree. I think he has convinced himself that it would be better, and so it's not a deliberate lie, but I do think he is lying. I like the way it parallels the IOHEFY scene. I wrote back in the Season 2 thread:

Quote:
I love the way the dialogue is similar to the actual B/A breakup scene in The Prom -- "I just want you to be able to have some kind of a normal life." / "I don't give a damn about a normal life!" I especially like when James says, "Then tell me you don't love me!" and Grace says, "I don't." Because it's clearly a lie here, and I think it's a lie when Angel says "I don't" about not wanting Buffy's life to be with him in The Prom, too. I think Angel has convinced himself that he doesn't want Buffy's life to be with him -- that he wants something better for her -- but I don't think it's actually true!


dcai0830 wrote:
"Angel's leaving me." I always find this line so intriguing. Because Buffy doesn't say, initially Angel is leaving town, she first says he is leaving her. And of course that is exactly what he is doing but I think this is strange verbage for an 18 year old. Usually you say Angel broke up with me or Angel and I aren't together but it sounds like a wife saying this about a husband. It feels like a very grown up line. I think she thinks of Angel as her partner. Her other half. And this line really strikes me as an understanding that Angel wasn't just her boyfriend - he was something else to her. (I'm not one of those people who believe they were married - so that's not the point I'm making. Just that it was "greater than" just a high school boyfriend).


You know, that line has stuck out for me when I've watched this ep too, but I've never thought about it this way. Great point.
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Grace Newman
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3x21 & 3x22 Graduation Day
Written and directed by Joss Whedon
Original air dates: May 18 & July 13, 1999



Summary from BuffyGuide.com: "While the Mayor prepares for his diabolical transformation on graduation day, Buffy battles Faith to save Angel's life." (Part 1) "As the hours tick away to graduation, the impending doom of the Mayor's ascension hangs heavy with the gang. With Angel near death, Buffy must risk her own life in an effort to save his." (Part 2)

An epic two-parter means very open-ended questions so you can talk about whatever moves you.

1. Overall thoughts on Graduation Day?
2. Favorite lines/scenes?
3. Anything stand out on rewatch?
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Grace Newman
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Overall thoughts on Graduation Day? You know an episode is good when just reading the script makes you cry, which totally didn't happen to me today. Smile

There's so much packed into these two episodes that it's hard to know where to start. Just watching all the guest star names flash up during the credits is exciting.

I particularly love the scene when The Mayor walks into the library in GD1. It's so surprising and entertaining to see a Big Bad just come in like it's nothing. I also love the foreshadowing of the final confrontation. In GD1, The Mayor comes into the library, Buffy taunts him and he threatens her, and Giles responds by driving a sword through him. In GD2, Buffy taunts The Mayor and he comes after her, and she leads him back to the library, where this time Giles blows him up! Smile

Speaking of Giles, I love that he is still in touch with Angel and he asks Angel to back Buffy up.

I really enjoy Anya in these episodes. There's something about the quality of her voice, especially when she's explaining the Ascension, and her line about how they have never seen a real demon. Also: "Aren't we gonna kiss?"

The Faith dilemma is one I have been thinking about a lot. On the one hand, what Faith did was awful, and it seems like karma that her blood could save Angel. On the other hand, if Buffy had actually fed Faith to Angel, that would have been a pretty awful scene, and I think it would have come between them even more than Angel feeding off Buffy did.

The biting scene is just so hot, but it's harder to watch on rewatch now that I think of the scene as much from Angel's perspective as Buffy's. Biting Buffy is something Angel has nightmares about, as we saw in Amends, and it contributes to the very dark time he has after leaving Sunnydale. I hate how mean the Scoobies (well, Xander) are to him afterward, though I understand it.

I also love how he gets to showcase his brilliance one last time by helping Buffy make the connection between The Mayor's "human weakness" and Faith.

It's so fun to see Buffy as a positive leader in GD2, especially because we're almost getting to General Buffy in the Season 7 rewatch over on BB. She brings everyone together, she empowers Xander by making him "key guy," and relies on them for ideas.

And they pull it off! Yay! Then comes the swirling smoke and my heart breaking. All I could think about during that scene was Angel saying, "I just gotta... I gotta walk away from this." (Has anyone giffed that on Tumblr? I'm envisioning two wide gifs stacked on top of each other. One is from Angel the episode, with Angel saying that line, and the other is from GD2 when they lock eyes across the parking lot and he walks away.)

Favorite lines/scenes? 

"Missed the heart." / "Meant to." (Mostly because it made me wonder if it was that narrator vamp again? Ha!)

"Tea is soothing. I wish to be tense."

"He's delirious. He thought I was Buffy." / "You too, huh?"

Anything stand out on rewatch?

When Buffy is getting Joyce to leave town, it kind of made me wonder why they weren't warning more people to get out of town if they could? A lot of people wouldn't have believed them, and they did need fighters, but it seems like they could have tried.

Also, what was up with Faith's quarry story? Like why did she bust out with it just then? I think it's supposed to be foreshadowing her fall at the end of GD1 and to show us her fearlessness, but it didn't seem to flow like a typical Buffyverse scene.

It's just a little funny to picture Angel with an arrow through him and Buffy with that box of volcano-ologist stuff making their way back to the library.

Those flared glittery jeans that Faith wears give me major flashbacks to my youth.

I still don't really understand why The Mayor and Faith went ahead with the plan to poison Angel. Yes, it distracted Buffy, but they had to know that she would come after Faith, especially if Angel died. So why is The Mayor so damn surprised by that development? Giles was concerned enough to get Buffy backup (though that didn't go so well for Angel), so why didn't The Mayor have better backup in place for Faith?

STUFF!

I have three gif sets to recommend for this episode! Our member jamlin (at least, she used to be a member...I think her account got deleted with some spam accounts) made this one for me because she's awesome.

It shows several of the parallels between Revelations and Graduation Day (Faith trying to kill Angel, Buffy and Faith fighting and falling through glass, Faith ultimately being the one to draw the bad guy's fire). I would have liked to get in a comparison of Gwendolyn Post and The Mayor as corrupt authority figures but that was a little harder to think of how to convey in gif form. Smile Anyway, a lot of foreshadowing in Revelations.

Then, there are two from the Dawn AU series that I have posted from before:
Dawn and Oz
Dawn and Buffy (Bangely)

Also, there's a heartbreaking one-shot by Trixen I love called The Wife of Lot that follows the events of GD2.

SCRIPTY BITS

Did Joss have to be reminded of the Sunnydale High colors?
Quote:
CORDELIA
I can't believe this loser look. I lobbied so hard for the red, but no one listens to me, lone fashionable wolf.

XANDER
I like the blue. Has more dignity.


Slightly different line:
Quote:
BUFFY
I hear you. I can't kill her... fun though it sounds... I don't have that in me. I can make her cry uncle, though, and I mean to.


Little more from the Anya-explains-the-Ascension-scene:
Quote:
WESLEY
There must be something more useful you can tell us.
(idea)
How did they kill it?

ANYA
You know anyone who lives in the Koskov Valley?

WESLEY
Oh.


FIGHT SCENE:

Quote:
Buffy punches Faith so fucking hard her head nearly snaps off. Faith responds in kind, twirling and backfisting Buffy. They face each other, the handshake over.

And they begin. The fight is fast at first, a blur of moves and blocks, kicks and counters, brutal but also balletic, intelligent rage. It takes them about the room -- Buffy smashed into the big screen TV, Faith knocked back over the end table -- and it never lets up.

Nobody speaks.

Faith gets Buffy in a lock from behind. They strain at each other, sweating, Faith's mouth at Buffy's ear.

FAITH (cont'd)
Not getting tired, are you? I'm just starting to feel it.

Buffy slams Faith back into the wall (or the stand up mirror, if that works), breaking her grip. She throws her up onto the landing. Faith stands, in front of the window, as Buffy runs up, jumps off the bed and dives into her.
They smash through the window.


BITE SCENE:

Quote:
INT. MANSION - CONTINUOUS - NIGHT
He makes it five steps before stumbling, sitting heavily on the coffee table, scattering items (including a metal water jug) to floor.

Buffy follows him out and jerks him roughly to his feet.

ANGEL
It's over!

BUFFY
It's never over. I won't let you die. Drink.

ANGEL
Please...

She hits him in the face. He takes the hit, looks back at her, weak and uncomprehending. She hits him again. He looks at her, understanding flooding into his eyes. She hits him again.

He looks back at her, in vampface.

She tears her tanktop aside. Grabs the back of his head, and slams it down on her neck.

He drinks.

Long, shuddering gulps, as his hands tighten around her, a stream of blood trickling down her back as he pulls her hard to him, overbalances her, they fall --

-- in extreme slow motion, they hit the ground, Angel on top, face still burrowed in her flesh... Buffy winces, mouth opening in a silent cry, unable to catch her breath --

-- Buffy's hand flails, finds the water jug, squeezes it, bending the thick metal --

Her leg curls up around him -- then shoots out in a sudden spasm, slamming into the table and breaking it in half.

He can't stop. Her eyes are wide and wet, panic and ecstatic pain whirling through them, as his animal feeding brings her close to the dark edge -- and she finally does scream, a hoarse, primal call that fills the room --

He hears. He wrenches himself free, throwing himself backwards onto the floor, breathing intensely hard, blood on his lips. A few racking breaths and he morphs back to human. Still lying there, he feels the fever break in him. He is strong again.

Getting his bearings, he looks over at Buffy.

ANGEL (cont'd)
Buffy?

She lies very still, blood pooled around an ugly wound on her neck. Her eyes open and unmoving. He moves to her, quiet panic filling him.

ANGEL (cont'd)
Buffy?

She does not move.

BLACK OUT



This wasn't in the script:
Quote:
Willow: "She won't be a vampire?"
Angel looking down again: "No. - She didn't feed off me."



I wish he would have touched her:

Quote:
INT. GILES' OFFICE - DAY (PREVIOUSLY SCENE H)
Angel is there, stocking weapons, when Buffy arrives. She carries something wrapped in an old rag.

ANGEL
You get what you needed?

BUFFY
I did.

She looks over the weapons, brushing past him.

BUFFY (cont'd)
We're gonna need more than this.

ANGEL
Giles is on it.

He reaches out for her, touches her neck near the bandage.

ANGEL (cont'd)
How are you?

BUFFY
I heal fast. Like you. Have you and Xander worked out your timing?

ANGEL
I'm not saying goodbye.

She stops, drops the businesslike demeanor.

ANGEL (cont'd)
We make it through this, I'm just gonna go.
(beat)
Do you understand?

A moment, and she nods.

ANGEL (cont'd)
There's just too much to --

She holds up her hand. No more. He nods, turns to collect some weapons. She watches him, keeps watching as he exits the office. Finally she turns to the bundle she brought in. Unwraps it.

It's Faith's knife. Still dark with her blood.


Blowing things up:

Quote:
The Mayor snakes in after her, bursting through the library doors --

INT. LIBRARY - NIGHT
and into the room, stopping to see:

POV: THE ROOM
Has no books in it. It does, however, have many big metal drums, many bags of fertilizer, many sticks of dynamite strapped to the railings, and many wires leading out the back of the room.

EXT. SCHOOL - NIGHT
Giles hits the plunger.

INT. LIBRARY - NIGHT
Room go boom.

EXT. LIBRARY ROOFTOP - NIGHT
As does the skylight --

EXT. FOUNTAIN QUAD - NIGHT
As does, piece by piece, the whole school, ending with:

EXT. FRONT OF SCHOOL - NIGHT
The front doors and windows blast right the hell out, fire and debris in their wake.


This is funny:

Quote:
EXT. FRONT OF SCHOOL - NIGHT (LATER)
Fire trucks and ambulances have arrived, the smoking ruin of the school just hidden by them. People are helping the wounded into ambulances, milling about in postwar shock, leaving, talking, hugging, crying (probably not crying, they're extras, but we can always hope).


NOT-GOODBYE SCENE:

Quote:
He goes. Buffy looks at her diploma, looks around her.

She feels him before she sees him. Turns.

Angel stands some twenty yards away, looking at her. People coming and going in between.

They both stop. The noise fades away. They stare at each other.

Angel turns and walks away.

Buffy stands and watches him. After a moment, she goes in the opposite direction.


This was cut from the ending:
Quote:

XANDER
You know what the best part of high school was?

BUFFY
When we blew it up?

XANDER
Yeah! That ruled. 'Cause you know the thing that made it so special...

BUFFY
Was that the school blew up?

XANDER
Exactly!

BUFFY
I begin to find you troubling.

XANDER
Oh, come on, you know you're all thinking it.

BUFFY
Well...
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dcai0830
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graduation Part 1


I love the scene with Willow where she and Harmony have a moment etc. I remember that feeling. All old grudges fall away and everyone signs each other's yearbooks and you forget about the rumors that other girl started about you and everyone is extremely sentimental. It rings true to me.

Love all of the interaction with the HS class in this episode. I love that they open this up to all of the students. I wish we would've seen more of the students throughout the season actually but I think we get a great dose of it here.

Quote:
Speaking of Giles, I love that he is still in touch with Angel and he asks Angel to back Buffy up.


I love this too! Its a small note to understand that Angel does have a relationship with some of the scoobies outside of Buffy.

I love Wes so much. Just... always and forever. His sword fighting with Giles and his little connecting the dots too late hahah. But even at the end when he is communicating the council's asshole directives. Just to see where he starts how far he will come. How much he will learn to care about Angel.

Buffy's conversation with her mom is very telling. I wonder how much of her desire to be "normal" is tied with her desire to make her mom happy or be the daughter that her mom wants her to be. I don't think that is all of it entirely but I bet it does come in to play.

The b/a argument:
I see both sides of this as I often do with these two. I can see how Buffy is annoyed because he ended the relationship and she needs to find a way to move on but she can't because she has to work with him. And I have been in Buffy's position where the other party seems fine about the break up and you are torn to shreds and you're like WTF isn't this hard on you?

And from Angel's perspective he isn't an over expressive guy he is suffering in silence and he wants to be there for Buffy for this task (because it would be really crappy to leave her high and dry while this thing is happening).

And then in typical Joss fashion "I can't have you in my life when I'm trying to move on -" ARROW RIGHT NEAR HIS HEART.

Favorite lines/scenes?

"They always go for the E"

"What are you doing?" "Panicking"

"Well, this is my last office romance, I'll tell you that."
(Wherein she forgets that lesson in s6/7, wherein Angel does too with Cordy)

"This is mutiny."
"I like to think of it as Graduation"

"Boy, it's a good thing no one ever wanted to check any of these books out, hunh?"
"Yes, very convenient."

Anything stand out on rewatch?

Ugh I find the stuff with Faith killing his poor volcanologist guy really tough to watch. I sometimes forget just how dark she goes. She has free will to do good and she chooses to do bad. She goes to jail and pays for her crimes and I do think she finds a way to make amends but it doesn't make it pleasant.

There is something I don't like about Buffy's hair in this episode. Like they teased it and combed it back. I don't like it.

Quote:
In GD1, The Mayor comes into the library, Buffy taunts him and he threatens her, and Giles responds by driving a sword through him.


And actually, I never noticed this but the Mayor taunts and turns to Giles and tells him that he is going to eat her. This triggers Giles to lash out. So what a great mirror to the relationship between Giles/Buffy and Mayor/Faith. I really love that.

One thing I didn't realize before this watch (and maybe because I just read Kairos Wolfbane which discusses our heros having to make these difficult decisions) is this dialogue:

Quote:
Buffy: No, it's perfect. Angel needs to drain a Slayer, then I'll bring him one.
Willow: Buffy, if Angel drains Faith's blood, it'll kill her.
Buffy: Not if she's already dead.


Buffy could disable Faith (hit her over the head) and bring her to Angel and have him kill her. In fact, logically that makes the most sense because I'm not so sure how long the body will keep for the blood that Angel needs to cure him. And what if after she dies her blood is no longer magic? Anyway - the plan is not "hit Faith over the head" and bring her to Angel so he can kill her. Buffy is going to kill her for him because she feels that is her responsibility. If Angel was lucid he would nix this whole plan by the way. He would tell her not to do this. He would never want Buffy to have to make this decision to take a life for him. But he is delirious and so...

Can we talk about how the volcanologist apartment is the DARKEST EVER.

I think the only season I ever found Xander attractive was Season 3.

The last scene in this episode (GD1) makes me think of this line from AtS Sanctuary:

Angel: "Where are you gonna go? Back out in that darkness? I once told you that you didn't have to go out in that darkness. Remember? That it was your choice. Well, you chose. - You thought that you could just touch it. That you'd be okay. - 5x5, right, Faith? - But it swallowed you whole. - So tell me - how did you like it?"

This is what s3 is all about for Buffy though, how she sees Faith's mirror image, a Slayer who embraces her dark side and lets it consume her. And Buffy knows she has that capacity inside her. To be a killer, to be a murderer just the same. And here she is making this decision to kill Faith. And its a questionable one. Faith really corners Buffy here, Angel is an innocent person (yes he is a vampire but he has a human soul). So is it right for Buffy to take a life for a life? For Buffy to make that decision?

But what is striking is that moment in which Buffy stabs Faith. That is the closest thing that Buffy has ever got to "touching the darkness" and she realizes it right then and there. This is what I can be if I let myself. I could let this darkness swallow me.

Buffy benefits from the fact that Faith doesn't die. I think she does realize how thin that line is for a Slayer and that informs her decisions in the future.

I'll be back for GD2 later today.
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Grace Newman
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dcai0830 wrote:
If Angel was lucid he would nix this whole plan by the way. He would tell her not to do this. He would never want Buffy to have to make this decision to take a life for him. But he is delirious and so...


Not necessarily disagreeing with you, but it is interesting that he does say “Faith” in the pre-biting part of the biting scene. It surprises me, even though he is delirious.

dcai0830 wrote:
Buffy benefits from the fact that Faith doesn't die. I think she does realize how thin that line is for a Slayer and that informs her decisions in the future.


You know, I literally never thought about the fact that Buffy thinks she’s killed Faith when she offers herself to Angel. Obviously she wants to save him because she loves him, but if she’s killed Faith and he dies anyway, then it would have all been for nothing, and the temptation to give into the darkness would possibly have been greater. She’s almost saving herself by saving him. (And in a way, Faith kind of saves them both with her jump, by not letting them do what they both at least thought about.)
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dcai0830
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It’s hard to quote when on my phone but with regards to Angel sayin Faith. I think he may think momentarily about drinking Faith but I don’t think that he would have signed up for having Buffy kill Faith for him. In other words he is the one taking the life. And then knowing Angel idk that I believe he would actually do that anyway if he was in his right mind...
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dcai0830
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graduation Part 2:


LOL I love the part with Angel thinking Willow is Buffy. Its hilarious and also - aww Angel is saying he can't leave her. He is having a moment of weakness.

And then Oz's "you too" hahah.

Am I going to hell for thinking Angel, deliriously walking away from Buffy with his shirt off still looks kinda hott? Sorry...

It is really heartbreaking to see Angel literally with no strength stumble away from Buffy after she tells him the plan. And then he says "Please."

But OMG the ...bite....scene...its still one of my favorite moments in this show. For all of the good and all of the bad. Because its hot and because its amazing and because of the symbolism and because of how I know it affects Angel and what it means for Buffy. The scoring on this scene is so great... Christophe Beck! One of the things I noticed on this watch was at the end when the music dies down and you see Angel's hand on Buffy's head - its almost trembling - which I think shows how he is just not in full control. I do think much of this is Angel being delirious/being Slayer blood because in s2 he bites Kate and he is able to stop himself and remains very much in control.

[quote="Grace Newman"]
dcai0830 wrote:

You know, I literally never thought about the fact that Buffy thinks she’s killed Faith when she offers herself to Angel. Obviously she wants to save him because she loves him, but if she’s killed Faith and he dies anyway, then it would have all been for nothing, and the temptation to give into the darkness would possibly have been greater. She’s almost saving herself by saving him. (And in a way, Faith kind of saves them both with her jump, by not letting them do what they both at least thought about.)


I never really looked at it this way either. I can never tell if Buffy feeds herself to Angel because she doesn't care if it means risking her life or because she trusts that he will be able to stop or a little of both. In other words, she has a responsibility to stopping the ascension and she doesn't have a death wish, so I really think she just decides that she is going to trust him with her life.

I love that Angel knows that Buffy has no allergies. I head canon that he knows so much about her Smile He could've said "I don't know..." I didn't know my high school boyfriend's allergies - btw. lol.

Script says: "Angel's unnaturally strong" so its canon that Slayer blood makes vampires strong right?

Does Faith empower Buffy here? Also something I never understood, did Faith share her power? Is Buffy healed faster or is she stronger because of Faith?

Another thing I noticed for the first time this watch is when Buffy says that Xander is the "key figure" Giles stops cleaning his glasses and looks very still. I wonder if he's like "we're doomed."

As Grace says it is hard not to compare this to Season 7. Anya has only seen one Ascension in 1,000 years. She flees for her life. This is a a BFD. And Buffy is a General here, but she isn't a General in a void. She is a General with trusted key advisors. And she is responsible for the lives of here ENTIRE student class! So its not like the whole potential scenario is all that different?

<3 <3 <3 Willow and Oz <3 <3 <3
I have no words just little hearts and smiles.

I'm hardly ever critical of Angel... out loud anyway but I really don't know why he has to leave without saying goodbye. Can't you take like a day to come and say goodbye to her. I know it's not going to make it easier but is it really going to make it any harder? The whole thing sucks. It blows.

I love the Mayor's speech. Because it is so meta. I read that Joss really took his time with that speech. Especially the stuff about the journey and how "nothing will ever be the same."

Because this is about the show. The show is no longer going to be about high school. Angel and Cordy are leaving. the setting is changing etc. The show will never be the same. And if you ask me the show will never be as good again (the good thing is that this is the best TV ever so even on its down fall BTVS is still an amazing show) but this is the top of the bell curve.

One of my all time favorite things is the students rising up and finally fighting back. For so long they have been oblivious to their surroundings but now they pick up their weapons and they fight back and its inspiring. And Buffy orchestrated all of this - with the help of all of the Scoobies. Look at them working together to wage an all out war! Those were the days.

I still cry in the scene where Angel and Buffy stare at each other at the end. It's such a powerful scene. I'm not sure how those two can convey so much with just their eyes. But they do... and they can.

The end of s3 to me marks the end not just of Bangel but the end of the heart of the show. I love s5 as well but it is very different thematically. The end of the high school as hell metaphor - that was really what made me love the show the most.

Fav Quotes:

"It's never over."

"Oh my god he's gonna do the entire speech."

"We survived."
"It was a hell of a battle."
"Not that battle. High school."

"Fire bad. Tree Pretty." (I use this quote alot.... people never know what I mean...) lol.
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Grace Newman
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dcai0830 wrote:
Script says: "Angel's unnaturally strong" so its canon that Slayer blood makes vampires strong right? 


Yes, I think so. I think that was supposed to be the implication of The Mayor's line about eating his spinach a la Popeye as well.

dcai0830 wrote:
Does Faith empower Buffy here? Also something I never understood, did Faith share her power? Is Buffy healed faster or is she stronger because of Faith? 


I thought it was more of a mental thing than a physical thing. Mark Field describes it this way:

"Before she could defeat the Mayor, Buffy had to integrate her shadow self, just as she'd had to do with Cordelia in Out of Mind, Out of Sight. First Buffy had to take control of her shadow, which she did in the fight at the end of GD1. Paraphrasing from my post on Oom, OoS, Buffy then integrated her shadow when she and Faith shared the dream in GD2. Faith told Buffy to "take what you need", metaphorically offering her whatever was in Faith’s mind. When she touched Buffy at the end of the dream, Buffy thereby reincorporated the shadow into her personality, producing a stronger, wider consciousness than before. As with every such instance (and remember, this is a constant process throughout life in Jungian theory), this gave Buffy a launching-pad for further growing up."

dcai0830 wrote:
I'm hardly ever critical of Angel... out loud anyway but I really don't know why he has to leave without saying goodbye. Can't you take like a day to come and say goodbye to her. I know it's not going to make it easier but is it really going to make it any harder? The whole thing sucks. It blows.


Oh, I think it would have been harder, yes. As he said, "There's just too much..." I don't see how they could have gotten through a goodbye. And anyway, I still think he said goodbye, without actually saying the words. The fact that he didn't leave without catching her eye to make sure she knew he made it through and was actually leaving now pretty much accomplished the same thing without the difficulties that words would have introduced to any parting.

dcai0830 wrote:
And if you ask me the show will never be as good again (the good thing is that this is the best TV ever so even on its down fall BTVS is still an amazing show) but this is the top of the bell curve. 


Becoming will always be the peak for me! Season 3 is good, and I really love it, but Season 2 is head and shoulders above it for me. The individual episodes of Season 3 are more consistently good, but the season doesn't hit the highs of Season 2.

I think it's because I value the metaphorical stuff so much. Season 3 is more straightfoward. Also, I never really felt Buffy was at any true risk of going bad, so the conflict with her shadow self was somewhat muted. The dichotomy between Buffy and Faith was drawn a little too sharply, I think.

But all that aside, I do agree that the show is never this good again, sadly, though I also really like Season 5. And Seasons 4 and 7 have a lot going for them metaphorically that make them interesting to think about.
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dcai0830
Warrior


Joined: 20 Sep 2017
Posts: 93

PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Oh, I think it would have been harder, yes. As he said, "There's just too much..." I don't see how they could have gotten through a goodbye. And anyway, I still think he said goodbye, without actually saying the words. The fact that he didn't leave without catching her eye to make sure she knew he made it through and was actually leaving now pretty much accomplished the same thing without the difficulties that words would have introduced to any parting.


I understand what you are saying here but with my way we get more Bangel...maybe a goodbye kiss. Or maybe a ““never mind I’m not leaving I love you forever and I will find a way for us to be together and as for the sun thing I once heard something about a ring...and we can adopt kids no biggie!”

No? Not gonna happen? Fine... walk away in cloud of smoke it is...

Wink Razz
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Grace Newman
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Joined: 18 Jan 2017
Posts: 299
Location: Washington, DC

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know I'm a sucker for emotional gut punches. Bring on the swirling smoke of pain! Razz
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